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Did this cause my entire home and skybox to dissapear forever from SL?


Manes Siamendes
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Alright so I have been in the process of moving to another sim. I really thought I was gonna have a quick and smooth move. After my SL partner packed up her things, I cranked up the draw distance to 1024 on my viewer to select the entire skybox with all my objects in it. And so when I took back the skybox, I saw that I still had some stuff that did not get selected and so in my inventory, I clicked my skybox and then clicked "Restore to Last Position" so that I can try selecting the whole skybox again but this time with the things that did not get selected. But then I suddenly got an error message. I don't remember completely what the message said, only that it said that it could not move the skybox back to its original position because there were no coordinates to move to. But then here is the thing, the skybox appears to completely dissapeared from my inventory and was nowhere to be seen on the sim. I kept checking my inventory; Recent Items, and my Object, and Lost and Found folders and found nothing, not even with a keyword search. I even did an Area Search for my skybox and found nothing and not even at the sim's 0,0,0 coordinates. I got really frustrated and not even the estate manager could help me. He suggested relogging and clearing cache, but that did not work at all. He even scoured the sim for my skybox objects but zilch. 

So I've been really frustrated tonight because this was a skybox that took me about a month to build on the summer of last year and it was a damn good skybox with a big castle-like house. And now to think I lost it all because of some error/glitch in the system???

Oh and by the way the skybox was a big linked object(with the symbol that looks like a little yellow 2x2 rubik's cube) made up of several other individual prims and linked objects. I must have had something that was no copy in there perhaps. Could this be the root cause of all this?

I really want my skybox back if possible. I'd use the LL support chat but it is not open at the time I posted this, so this is my last resort here. But I need someone to please help me here.

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"Restore to Last Position" only works if you've got rez rights at the sim's 0,0,0 coordinates... obviously, you don't or you wouldn't have gotten an error message.  Your estate manager should be able to roll back the sim.  I'm quite sure asking them to do this will be much quicker than going through LL, especially since LL might just tell you they can't do anything for you, because you were using a third party viewer with a feature they do not support.

...Dres

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Having no copy objects in the mix  shouldn't cause a problem that I know of.  I've rezzed coalesced objects out with a mix of perms with no issues.  If however the entire coalesced object exceeded 1000 prims or scripts this could be the problem.  There is a limit on how many prims and scripts can be in a coalesced object,  and rezzed back out.  When you attempt to rez out the items with more prims and/or scripts, the load on the servers exceeds their limits.  The only way to have handled this is to file a support ticket to have LL break the coalesced object up into to smaller groups.  If your coalesced object exceeded these limits you may have lost it for good.

Your only option at this point is to file a support ticket to see if LL can recover it.  I hope they can but it may be impossible.

 

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I am afraid my skybox/coalesced object was over 1000 prims. Sheesh how was I supposed to know that there was a server load limit on that?? LL really needs to address this because this is very serious for anyone who moves their stuff when moving to new residences and encounters this issue. 

I've never filed a support ticket to LL, so do you have any advice for doing so? 

Also perhaps the estate manager should restart the sim but he is currently offline now.

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

Your estate manager should be able to roll back the sim. 

That's what needs to happen. I believe, however, that the estate manager will have to go through the Lab to request that rollback, and there's undoubtedly some time limit. (They can't keep all sim backups forever, surely.)

I'd just note that this is exactly why the Lab will never again put "Restore to Last Position" back in their own viewers. They used to have it, and it caused just this kind of agony far too often to be something they could support. Even if they magically fixed the 0,0,0 thing (and I have no idea how that could even ever be possible), there'd still be some way it could fail and cause all this misery anyway.  (I do think, however, that in the past year or so it's gotten relatively more common for stuff to simply disappear that in the past would have been returned to Inventory.)

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Manes Siamendes wrote:

They've removed the Restore to Last Position from viewers? OMG and I've been using Firestorm all the time.

I wasn't aware that LL ever had Restore to Last Position in their viewer, I also use Firestorm almost exclusively.

From what I gather, LL used to allowing anyone to rez things at 0,0,0, regardless of whether or not they had rez rights on that parcel and Firestorm used this ability in order to get things to rez at the 0,0,0 coordinate then move the item from there to where it was last.  A while back, LL changed it so that you needed actual rez rights at that coordinate in order to rez there, which meant that only those with rez rights at 0,0,0 were able to use Restore to Last Position.  I believe LL changed this because griefers were using that ability to reek havoc on sims.

And that is why we can't have nice things.

...Dres

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I use Firestorm and have no problem using the Restore to Last Position as long as I have rez rights where I use it.  It works even if I don't have rez rights at the <0,0,0> coordinates.  I note you didn't say in your OP you rezzed it at the <0,0,0> coordinates, only looked there when it went missing.  That's good to do because sometimes sims put stuff there that they have no idea what to do with.

Since your coalesced object was over 1000 prims that is exactly what caused your problem.  I am not sure why you didn't know this.  There is information in the knowledge base that warn about the limitations of coalesced objects.  A few years ago LL warned everyone about the 1000 prim/script limits.  I know this occurred since your rez date.

Restarting the sim isn't going to help.  A roll back is about the only thing that will, if LL can't retrieve it.  However lately LL denies more rollback requests than they grant because they can be problematic. Any changes to the sim and also no copy object anyone rezzed between the roll back date and time and the current one is lost forever.   Any no copy object rezzed on the sim before the roll back but taken back into inventory after the roll back date and time will cause an extra copy to generate which is contrary to the permission system.  But it doesn't hurt to ask and a warning to the others living there to take back into inventory all no copy objects rezzed lately will mitigate some of the problems a roll back can produce.

Since the object is missing now, if you are premium, you need to file a support ticket for loss of inventory. Unfortunately if you are not a premium member you are out of luck.

If the object eventually returns to your inventory, which sometimes happens, then file a support ticket to have it broken into smaller groups before attempting to rez it again.

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I am not a premium member. Why do I have to be a premium member to file a support ticket to LL? That is quite cruel to me since I do not have a job. The only reason I have a residence in SL is because I have friends who are kind enough to let me live at their sims for free.

And I have hardly, if ever, looked at the knowledge base at all. I simply for the most part learned to build and manage inventory on my own and have never been aware of this. If this is such a serious issue, then it needs to be made easier for people to know through the viewer itself. Like an error message that tells you that you cant rez this coalesced object because it's over 1000 prims or something. 

I will however, ask my EM about rollbacks soon. And if all else fails, I am gonna have to rebuild my house after all. I still have a clear picture in my head of how my house looks like and I have all the meshes, prims, and textures that I need to put it back together from memory.

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I am not premium either.  It is a risk you run if you are not premium because you get little support other than for a couple of very basic issues.  That is one reason the knowledge base, the wiki, the Answer's section and this forum exists.  They are DIY resources for non premium members as well as for premium members.

If it makes you feel any better it is highly unlikely that LL would be able to retrieve your build under the circumstances even if you could file a support ticket.  As for a warning, if LL gave a warning about every potential mistake that could be made in SL we'd be getting them all the time much to the annoyance of most people.

For anything you build, I would advise you to always pack a copy up in a rez box even if it is for personal use.  There are other things that can happen to destroy a build other than this.  There are rez boxes available for free on MarketPlace and they all are pretty simple to use and can prevent a world of headaches. They also make placing a build at a new location much easier.

 

 

 

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

I wasn't aware that LL ever had Restore to Last Position in their viewer, I also use Firestorm almost exclusively.

I'm pretty sure I didn't just imagine it, but I have no idea what record of it remains. I used it a long, long time ago, probably before Viewer 2, so I suppose it may have been one of the Snowglobe viewers. Anyway, it was long before Firestorm existed, and before Phoenix, too; maybe even before Emerald, not sure.  Anyway, whenever it was, it didn't remain in subsequent viewer releases, and the explanation given was that the Lab simply couldn't handle the support burden caused by the feature.  (I suspect that may be why many other features, too, never make it from TPVs into the Linden viewer -- although there are other design considerations, too.)

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I will however, ask my EM about rollbacks soon. And if all else fails, I am gonna have to rebuild my house after all. I still have a clear picture in my head of how my house looks like and I have all the meshes, prims, and textures that I need to put it back together from memory.

Yeah, "soon" is critical here, not just because the backups can only exist for a finite time, but because you might otherwise put the estate manager in a terrible spot, having to decide whether to restore your stuff at the expense of somebody else's progress made since the backup was taken. (It is -- or, anyway, was at one time -- possible to restore from backup just portions of a sim's contents, but it was insanely labor-intensive, so I think it's something they'd only do to avoid the other bad effect of rollbacks: risk of duplicated no-copy content.)

It's worth a shot, I think, but that's a good attitude about rebuilding, too. It seems daunting, but if it comes to that, a rebuild will almost certainly be better than the original.

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Qie Niangao wrote:


Dresden Ceriano wrote:

I wasn't aware that LL ever had Restore to Last Position in their viewer, I also use Firestorm almost exclusively.

I'm pretty sure I didn't just imagine it, but I have no idea what record of it remains. I used it a long, long time ago, probably before Viewer 2, so I suppose it may have been one of the Snowglobe viewers. Anyway, it was long before Firestorm existed, and before Phoenix, too;
maybe
even before Emerald, not sure.  Anyway, whenever it was, it didn't remain in subsequent viewer releases, and the explanation given was that the Lab simply couldn't handle the support burden caused by the feature.  (I suspect that may be why many other features, too, never make it from TPVs into the Linden viewer -- although there are other design considerations, too.)

I remember hearing a bit about it a year or so ago when the server change first broke the function if you didn't have rezz rights at 0,0,0. The function was put in the LL viewer at about the time adult areas were moved to Zindra - the function could take a build that had been in a given place in one region and restore it to those same coordinates in a completely different region. The function was commented out of the main viewer but the code remained and TPV's just un-hid it.

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Thanks Theresa. Now that you say it, yeah, the Zindra migration definitely rings a bell.

Well, Theresa covered it, so I guess that makes this post superfluous... nevertheless, I did do some research and found out that this was indeed implemented by LL for the Zindra move, then quickly removed from their viewer.

Also, regardless of what Amethyst said, I've found no documentation which suggests RtLP works without rez rights at 0,0,0 coordinates since LL disabled that ability... except, of course, for her post here.  I am not questioning the integrity of her statement, but merely wondering if she has possibly misremembered the timing of such events or has perhaps run across some sort of anomaly.

...Dres

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:

Thanks Theresa. Now that you say it, yeah, the Zindra migration definitely rings a bell.

Well, Theresa covered it, so I guess that makes this post superfluous... nevertheless, I did do some research and found out that this was indeed implemented by LL for the Zindra move, then quickly removed from their viewer.

Also, regardless of what Amethyst said, I've found no documentation which suggests RtLP works without rez rights at 0,0,0 coordinates since LL disabled that ability... except, of course, for her post here.  I am not questioning the integrity of her statement, but merely wondering if she has possibly misremembered the timing of such events or has perhaps run across some sort of anomaly.

...Dres

 

All I can say is that I've used it every day for the past two weeks building a large project in a private sandbox that is a quarter sim and does not include rez rights at the zero coordinate.  I also use it on the platform over my office all the time, which is a 4096 and I don't have rez rights at the zero coordinates on that sim either.

Perhaps Firestorm figured out a way to make it happen without it rezzing at the zero coordinates first,  It wouldn't surprise me as they have improved a lot of features originally in the SL viewers.

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:

Thanks Theresa. Now that you say it, yeah, the Zindra migration definitely rings a bell.

Well, Theresa covered it, so I guess that makes this post superfluous... nevertheless, I did do some research and found out that this was indeed implemented by LL for the Zindra move, then quickly removed from their viewer.

Also, regardless of what Amethyst said, I've found no documentation which suggests RtLP works without rez rights at 0,0,0 coordinates since LL disabled that ability... except, of course, for her post here.  I am not questioning the integrity of her statement, but merely wondering if she has possibly misremembered the timing of such events or has perhaps run across some sort of anomaly.

...Dres

 

All I can say is that I've used it every day for the past two weeks building a large project in a private sandbox that is a quarter sim and does not include rez rights at the zero coordinate.  I also use it on the platform over my office all the time, which is a 4096 and I don't have rez rights at the zero coordinates on that sim either.

Perhaps Firestorm figured out a way to make it happen without it rezzing at the zero coordinates first,  It wouldn't surprise me as they have improved a lot of features originally in the SL viewers.

Well, hell... I'll have to give it another try.

...Dres

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