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why is it always dark ??


irihapeti
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why is it always dark when I login?

this is a question that new people often ask

so what you tell them is can change the Sun to Midday so they can see. So they do that and go: woooo!!! I can see now lol. I like !!

+

then in the latest viewer LL changed it so that if new person changes it to light then when they login the next time then is dark again

seems this was a Feature Request to change the default viewer behaviour. Which was that what Sun you choose for yourself was sticky between logins

not anymore. Has been changed in the latest viewer to be unsticky now. Is now always: Use Region Settings when login

+

is so awesome this. What does it matter to make people who cant see, not see ??? Like who cares that they now have to change their sun everytime now.

is apparently way more important that "experience" owners get to impose their awesome dark by default on people who cant seeeeee !!!! every. single. time

dont LL even know what is actual important anymore. s.e.r.i.o.u.s.l.y

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Night in SL lasts one hour, daylight lasts three. Three times as likely to login during daylight hours.

Shown below, with 00:00 / 04:00 (4 hours, the point when daycycle resets) as Midnight - showing DayCycle-relative time and not SLT.

DayCycle.jpg

If you own a sim you can override and fix the sun in place (presumably because tier is high enough to justify control of heaveny-skybox and earthy-grid). If you don't fix the sun, it makes sense that the daycycle should shift. Visitors can then locally override when they're bothered by lack of light*, rather than expecting the whole of SL to be sunlight all the time.

I don't understand the fuss. Is this a fuss? Personally I always found it more annoying that Ctrl+Shift+Y set 'SL default daycycle Midday' than 'Your custom daycycle Midday'.

(*Lack of light is a location/building issue - landowners not providing adequate lighting in interior spaces or during walkable spaces at night. OR TORCHES.)

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irihapeti wrote:

why is it always dark when I login?

this is a question that new people often ask

so what you tell them is can change the Sun to Midday so they can see. So they do that and go: woooo!!! I can see now lol. I like !!

+

then in the latest viewer LL changed it so that if new person changes it to light then when they login the next time then is dark again

seems this was a Feature Request to change the default viewer behaviour. Which was that what Sun you choose for yourself was sticky between logins

not anymore. Has been changed in the latest viewer to be unsticky now. Is now always: Use Region Settings when login

+

is so awesome this. What does it matter to make people who cant see, not see ??? Like who cares that they now have to change their sun everytime now.

is apparently way more important that "experience" owners get to impose their awesome dark by default on people who cant seeeeee !!!! every. single. time

dont LL even know what is actual important anymore. s.e.r.i.o.u.s.l.y

If you want people to always see things looking like crap you can just have them use the "Environment Editor" and click a few buttons.

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ok. I answer this

where do new people go ?? what sims are they more to be found on than any others ?

the Portal Park

when they leave the Portal Park where do they go the most?

the Linden Realms

the default Region Setting for LR is Dark. Is by design. is not only dark but is murky and foggy even

is very pretty this murky foggy dark place. Pretty like a postcard. Is a fabulous experience for a postcard

as a game played in the dark it suxs. big time

i know this bc I am the Pike Peak monsta. I own that mountain

the reason I own it is bc I dont play it in the dark. I play in the blazing bright midday sun

why?

bc the monstas cast shadows. You can see the shadows on the ground on the edge of your screen before the monsta itself comes into view. It gives you a split-second edge over everybody who doesnt know this, They cant see the shadows in the dark

how come I get heaps of green and blue crystals. like heaps everytime??

bc. Is timing for one

but two is shadows again. The puffers cast shadows in the time just before they appear. Something you can only see in the viewer in the midday sun

+

there should be a viewer preference: Set to Always Use Region Settings On Login. The default should be: Off (the current behaviour)

 

 

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Coby Foden wrote:

Linden Lab should implement a new feature.

Every time one logs in, a torch will magically appear in their hand. Yay, there is light!

 

:matte-motes-big-grin: :matte-motes-sunglasses-1: :smileyvery-happy:

Torch.jpg

 

jejejjee (:

is true this for some new people on the LR. They lit up like xmas trees lots of them. 6 faclights anyone (: Just so they can see where they going. I try tell as many as I can to set to Midday but cant help everyone

 

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irihapeti wrote:

ok. I answer this

where do new people go ?? what sims are they more to be found on than any others ?

the Portal Park

when they leave the Portal Park where do they go the most?

the Linden Realms

Viewer devs didn't build these two sims. Why should they/anyone else care?

If the sun has been forced via Region controls it's not a daycycle problem and just one of user preference as it's an advantage in this specific game.

I'm not seeing this as a problem that needs addressing, and my personal preference is that sim should follow rules set by landowner. For edge-cases and people with interests divergent from the designer of the land, there will always be hurdles. Same as enabling Fly on No Fly land.

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LL are changing a viewer behaviour for an edge case. The edge case being experience builders who want murky bc is awesome 

+

ps. I just add something

I get it if a experience sim reverted the viewer to Use Region Settings when a person went to that sim

but to have it revert everytime on login? Is nuts

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If you say so. I'd agree that it sounds like a game set in daylight is probably due.

To me it sounds like it more closely matches expected behaviour of overriding the sun. Per session makes sense rather than freezing sun indefinitely. Sun should move in-viewer by default, as this is the same default setting for Region/Estate controls (again, unless overridden).

Best of luck tho.

ETA: Saw your update @ 06:00, no extra comments. Take care. :)

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i ps above

 +

i tell you another story

is this new lady I met a few months ago. She wants to learn to build. So we start doing that. I notice tha seh is logging in on her early morning like before dawn. She says is dark in her evening so she cant build. I tell her set to Midday. She goes wow!!

she also was going to Franks (she is older lady) It was also dark there as well

+

another

I was at OIP. This dog came. Is a new guy. We had a chat then he said: I better go home now, its getting dark. I got lost yesterday when I stayed out after dark. I coulldnt find my house in the dark. I ended up logging off on the seabed. Took me ages this morning to find it 

I tell him about Midday. He went: woooo!!! thanks. Then I tell him about Set Home. He went: cool lol

+

dark. We love it dark

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irihapeti wrote:

LL are changing a viewer behaviour for an edge case.
The edge case being experience builders who want murky bc is awesome 

+

ps. I just add something

I get it if a experience sim reverted the viewer to Use Region Settings when a person went to that sim

but to have it revert everytime on login? Is nuts

And not wanting to have to click a button to cheat in Linden Realms isn't an edge case?

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


irihapeti wrote:

LL are changing a viewer behaviour for an edge case.
The edge case being experience builders who want murky bc is awesome 

+

ps. I just add something

I get it if a experience sim reverted the viewer to Use Region Settings when a person went to that sim

but to have it revert everytime on login? Is nuts

And not wanting to have to click a button to cheat in Linden Realms
isn't
an edge case?

read the other stories ok. I got heaps of them about new people stumbling round in the dark all over

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


irihapeti wrote:

LL are changing a viewer behaviour for an edge case.
The edge case being experience builders who want murky bc is awesome 

+

ps. I just add something

I get it if a experience sim reverted the viewer to Use Region Settings when a person went to that sim

but to have it revert everytime on login? Is nuts

And not wanting to have to click a button to cheat in Linden Realms
isn't
an edge case?

i just add on this specific accusation. Every competitive game is exploited to the max. There are no competitive vid games where this is not true

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irihapeti wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


irihapeti wrote:

LL are changing a viewer behaviour for an edge case.
The edge case being experience builders who want murky bc is awesome 

+

ps. I just add something

I get it if a experience sim reverted the viewer to Use Region Settings when a person went to that sim

but to have it revert everytime on login? Is nuts

And not wanting to have to click a button to cheat in Linden Realms
isn't
an edge case?

read the other stories ok. I got heaps of them about new people stumbling round in the dark all over

Those people can turn on the sun. Temporarily. When they need it. I change it all the time for testing purposes. And I used to wonder, "Why can't I see the kewl lighting here" until I remembered I changed the daylight toggle on another account and forgot to set it back.

Meanwhile, for your use case, just go to "Environment Editor", change the option to "Customize" or whatever it is, select "Fixed Sky" and pick whatever look you want - it's persistent; I just checked it. Wala!

You're usually pretty reasonable here, but hey, things happen. Welcome to the BAWWWWbary Coast...

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it doesnt make any sense to have a quick menu option that has been persistent across logins since forever and now to have it no longer be persistent across logins

what possible benefit is there in it changing it ??? is nuts

can say oh! but now is temporary while login. bc temporary is better. better for who ???

is bananas

.

 

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irihapeti wrote:


LlazarusLlong wrote:

Not for nothing are ignorant people conventionally described as being "in the dark".

i can turn your light on for you if you like

My present's so bright I have to wear shades.

[Congratulations if you get the cutural reference.]

[Hint: I'm a peeping-tom techie.]

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I could be wrong here, but I believe the chief complaint is that the setting worked the way it was, then LL went and changed the default setting, for seemingly no reason, and the new default likely confuses new folks. Some older residents may not even realize the setting was changed, because they're already quite familiar with windlight, adjusting settings, and likely have something preset that is persistant.

Whether or not you personally, or any one individual personally, has an issue with a particular change, shouldn't really be part of the equation. As a whole, adjusting defaults and settings to accommodate a portion of people that the change wouldn't affect at all, doesn't even make any sense.(that would be, those already familiar with the setting, familiar with how to change it, or already have a preset they typically use which never changes).

I don't personally care, for myself, what LL changes regarding windlight, as long as I can have the setting I want and have it stick permanently until, or unless, I change it. I can, however, see how people who are new, would be confused by this particular change, or cycle. Especially peple who were new when the original setting existed, who then logged on one day to see the setting changed. They're likely to be confused too. 

Sure information is out there, it's easy, at least for some, to figure it out, but that doesn't make it any less confusing. I'm pretty sure the learning curve in sl is already rough enough for new folks. We all know that LL lacks the ability to properly instruct and inform, because most of the people on the forums are there to do it for them.  That doesn't mean we should have to, though.

I help new people a lot, and windlight is one of the first things we discuss once we get better movement controls, UI settings set, and the most basic of other settings set too. I think you'd be surprised by how many people who have no idea how the daylight , or windlight, settings even work. Not because they're morons, want special treatment, or are an "edge case", but because the information despite being plentiful should one choose, and know where, to look, is not obvious.

LL doesn't even know why they changed the original default to something else, how are new residents supposed to know? The change wasn't necessary, in the least, so I'm not sure exactly who they are accommodating by making it, or who will benefit that is.

I don't really have a horse in this race, except to say that LL makes idiotic changes all the time, often times they make no sense to anyone, but only those who are annoyed by the specific change will talk about it(or even likely notice it). Changing it back to the original default isn't accommodating a specific niche group of people, it's simply putting it back to the way it has been for ages, since there was no real reason to change it in the first place.

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Tari Landar wrote:

I could be wrong here, but I believe the chief complaint is that the setting worked the way it was, then LL went and changed the default setting, for seemingly no reason, and the new default likely confuses new folks.

Sorry Tari, I can't suspend my disbelief with this argument either. New users have no established expectations, and don't care how lighting is controlled in SL - just so long as it can be controlled when they need it.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who didn't already know how daycycle-overriding worked, would be 'confused' by having to do it this way.

That said, I'm not denying the viewer presenting evironment control as a series of drop-down menu's and often-contradictory sliders is clumsy. Just that reverting to Use Region Settings is unlikely to cause any discomfort to new users.

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Tari Landar wrote:

LL doesn't even know why they changed the original default to something else, how are new residents supposed to know? The change wasn't necessary, in the least, so I'm not sure exactly who they are accommodating by making it, or who will benefit that is.

They changed it because someone asked for it, probably some time ago:

"MAINT-2477 Feature Request - Sun position override should not persist across logins"

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Freya Mokusei wrote:


Sorry Tari, I can't suspend my disbelief with this argument either. New users have no established expectations, and don't care
how
lighting is controlled in SL - just so long as it can be controlled when they need it.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who didn't already know how daycycle-overriding worked, would be 'confused' by having to do it this way.

That said, I'm not denying the viewer presenting evironment control as a series of drop-down menu's and often-contradictory sliders is clumsy. Just that reverting to Use Region Settings is unlikely to cause any discomfort to new users.

I can agree to disagree, we have differing opinions. But in my experience, with new people, there ARE expectations of being able to see what you're doing on login, without having to fiddle with a muddled mess of settings(a rant probably better saved for another day). The darker night settings do make this difficult for some. Figuring out how to get a setting to persist between logins, is something that confuses some people.

Those are just some of my own observations. While none of them apply to me, personally, they do apply to a lot of new folks. I have seen, and heard, it all regarding windlight and the day/night cycles over the years. Personally, I keep a very specific setting, all of the time. I can't do the night settings, because then I really can't see, and my vision is impaired enough without that hurdle. I've also showed a lot of others how to set a persistant setting, and a lot of them truly were unaware.

Whether or not people should have expectations of the day/night cycle, or being able to see as they're moving about, is an entirely different story...probably.

I'm still uncertain, as I always am, why some feature requests actually get put through, and others(most of which are likely way more important) go ignored, but again, that's a whole different topic, for a different thread...and a long dead beat horse at that.

I can still understand why people don't see any logic behind changing what existed for years with little to no complaints. Then again, that's par for the course sometimes around here, lol. 

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


Tari Landar wrote:

LL doesn't even know why they changed the original default to something else, how are new residents supposed to know? The change wasn't necessary, in the least, so I'm not sure exactly who they are accommodating by making it, or who will benefit that is.

They changed it because someone asked for it, probably some time ago:

Feature Request - Sun position override should not persist across logins"

yes. Is not accessible to public that maint request. So dunno what arguments moved LL to act on it

is still a persistent setting in the official viewer release 3.7.25 Feb 15 that is downloaded from the main webpage by default

has been changed in the 3.7.26 Mar 15 Maintenance viewer which is in the release channel

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i think I might put in a Feature Request to have the other quick menu options made temporary as well. Like Hide Banlines, Show Parcel Boundaries, Properties, etc

that way will be better. Like we can change them all back to our own settings each time we log in. Will be way better this. Is terrible how red boundary lines mess up the view that I made for you my awesome visitor. And Hiding banlines that I made for you. You should have to see them everytime you log in, then can them off turn off each time you login. bc is awesome

+

and them LMs on your nav bar. They should be temporary as well even. Like dunno what is the point of them not being temporary to each login. I mean like they persist in Places window anyways. So pfft to that as well

+

dunno why anyone would care if we did this. Is not like e.v.e.r.y.b.o.d.y would even notice or care even

 

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LlazarusLlong wrote:


irihapeti wrote:


LlazarusLlong wrote:

Not for nothing are ignorant people conventionally described as being "in the dark".

i can turn your light on for you if you like

My present's so bright I have to wear shades.

[Congratulations if you get the cutural reference.]

[Hint: I'm a peeping-tom techie.]

you are Darth Vader arent you

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