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Can snoopers see my dollar?


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Last night I went inworld and visited a strip club. I like a bit of the pole action, y'know? I don't have any money but I thought I'd try to persuade one of the girls to get her baps out anyway.

I was chatting to the two girls dancing when suddenly the manager got in my IM grill, saying I couldn't request the girls to whip 'em out without any money . I told her that I was a top SL football commentator, owned several islands and that I could buy her club if I wanted. She replied, 'Nope, I have a HUD that can detect if people have money, and you have 0L in your balance!"

Anyway, I've heard all sorts of jive on SL, from people knowing the Lindens to being able to hack my computer, but I thought I'd ask the GD experts:

1) Does such a HUD - capable of detecting whether nearby people have any money or not - exist?

2) If so, does it fall foul of TOS?

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No one can see how much money you have or don't have only if you have payment info on file and if you have used it.

Most likely, since you were trying to get the women to do something they normally get tips for, without paying them, the women may have reported you to the manager, or she may have seen your chat and concluded you had no money

Bragging doesn't do anything.  Anyone can claim to be a big shot.  There are a lot of people that own several islands, and who cares if you are a 'top' football commentator?  I have never heard of you, and neither have several football friends I asked.  So that doesn't make you a big shot except in your own mind.  Lastly, you can't buy a club unless the owner is willing to sell it.  There are no hostile takeovers in SL, lol.  Frankly I am not impressed myself and if I were the manager I wouldn't have believed you.  If you are such a big shot why did you have no money?

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MaurizioFurverti wrote:

Last night I went inworld and visited a strip club. I like a bit of the pole action, y'know? I don't have any money but I thought I'd try to persuade one of the girls to get her baps out anyway.

I was chatting to the two girls dancing when suddenly the manager got in my IM grill, saying I couldn't request the girls to whip 'em out without any money . I told her that I was a top SL football commentator, owned several islands and that I could buy her club if I wanted. She replied, 'Nope, I have a HUD that can detect if people have money, and you have 0L in your balance!"

Anyway, I've heard all sorts of jive on SL, from people knowing the Lindens to being able to hack my computer, but I thought I'd ask the GD experts:

1) Does such a HUD - capable of detecting whether nearby people have any money or not - exist?

2) If so, does it fall foul of TOS?

It's called a BS detector and it's usually pretty accurate.

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Anyone can brag on SL. I have alot of nice things in inventory but you don't see me bragging about it. As a former dancer I could smell the BS from a mile away. Like some others have mentioned, there is the "payment info on file" thing in your profile. Thats usualy how a dancer knows if they will be tipped by the person or not. As a dancer they realy souldn't care if payment info on file or not. It's their job to be friendly to everyone.

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They can't see your L$ Balance, but they can smell BS. People like you are the daily burden of every club, brothel and even the freelancers. And everyone who has worked long enough in a club-environment learns quickly who is serious and whos just a time-waster waiting for free candy to happen.

The manager was probably trying to protect her girls from wasting too much time and energy on you and maybe one of the girls even felt a little annoyed by your attempt to exploid her professional friendlyness.

And your story is pretty weak, by the way. There are no top SL football commentators. And your bragging about owning several islands or your abilitly to buy her club was a little over the top.

I'm not aware how any HUD could detect what she claims it does.

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Qie Niangao wrote:


Syo Emerald wrote:

 

I'm not aware how any HUD could detect what she claims it does.

Yeah, so this club manager is another compulsive liar, just like our OP here.

Where is this club, anyway? I have this bridge in Bay City someone may want to buy.

A match made in heaven, for sure.

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I'm not sure all of the people "claiming" that nobody can see your Linden balance are correct.

I had weird, coincidental, encounter with this stranger. She asked out of nowhere "Can I have 26 lindens?".... I just happened to have exactly 26 lindens..... I suspect that there is a method, whether it be through blacklisted viewers, haxors, or what.

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AnimalChi wrote:

I'm not sure all of the people "claiming" that nobody can see your Linden balance are correct.

I had weird, coincidental, encounter with this stranger. She asked out of nowhere "Can I have 26 lindens?".... I just happened to have exactly 26 lindens..... I suspect that there is a method, whether it be through blacklisted viewers, haxors, or what.

 

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Yea, it makes sense for an escort to use such a hud.

However, the thing that's getting me is, even older, well established users in this thread are claiming that nobody can see our L$ balances.

What I want to know, is why there are two different answers. To me, it seems logical to believe that it is possible, but if older users think it's not possible, I want to know why they think this. Could anyone be technical and explain exactly what it is that would prevent another user from seeing our L$ balance?

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It would kinda require two separate layers of magic, one being a scripting function to retrieve the L$ balance information, and the other being something that exposed that information so scripts could get at it.

I'm a scripter and reasonably well-versed in the closed set of functions defined for LSL, and I'm pretty sure no function exists that is supposed to return the L$ balance information (even for the account of the script-owner, never mind somebody else).

The lack of such a function doesn't completely preclude somebody finding some way to use an existing script function to fetch data other than what it was designed to do, but for that to work, the data needs to be exposed somewhere. Scripts run on the region simulator, so data known to the sim would be one place -- except I don't think the sim generally knows L$ balances. There's a whole complicated transaction system for moving L$s around between accounts, and the sim gets updated about the transactions, but it would make this all more complicated if the sim itself retained any information about the balance in any of those accounts. (Why more complicated? Because L$ balance is affected by events all over the grid, not just in the region where the avatar happens to be at the moment.)

So if one wanted to design SL so this were possible, the script would need to get the sim to fetch this information from somewhere and hand it to the script. The viewer is one place we know there is information -- usually mostly correct but often delayed -- about the L$ balance. It's not typical for a script to be able to fetch information from somebody else's viewer; indeed, the one example that comes to mind is llGetAgentLanguage -- which when introduced was pretty controversial for its privacy implications.

(Note that none of this affects what could happen with a hypothetical viewer specially built to expose the L$ balance information. Thing is, the L$ balance would only be visible for other avatars using that particular viewer.)

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AnimalChi wrote:

Yea, it makes sense for an escort to use such a hud.

However, the thing that's getting me is, even older, well established users in this thread are claiming that nobody can see our L$ balances.

What I want to know, is why there are two different answers. To me, it seems logical to believe that it is possible, but if older users think it's not possible, I want to know why they think this. Could anyone be technical and explain exactly what it is that would prevent another user from seeing our L$ balance?

Older residents have been in SL longer and have more experience with SL and with new residents who believe things they've heard, but aren't true.

There is no published LSL function that reveals another residents (or even your own) account balance, so this would have to be a vulnerability, or a secret function. SL would be a less attractive place if Linden Lab provided a function or tolerated a vulnerability that allowed snooping other's balances. Imagine if RL banks allowed anyone to view your accounts.

We have a reporting mechanism (Abuse Report) for letting Linden Lab know of behavior we find abusive. There are third party viewer developers and tech savvy residents with close ties to the Lindens who keep their eyes and ears open for complaints about SL. How likely is it that people have had their account balances snooped over the years, but never mentioned it to anyone? This thread is proof that people do mention things like this.

People have been imagining mysterious causes for simple coincidences since the dawn of... people. We like to find causes for effects we see in our lives, even though most of the effects are produced by random chance. It takes effort to catch yourself confusing causation for correlation, but it can often be done, and I am often pleased (and sometimes mortified) when I catch myself making that mistake.

So, let me ask why it seems logical to you that Linden Lab would either provide a (not so) secret function that allows snooping, or fail to fix a reported vulnerability that allows it? And if they did this thing which most of use would take issue with, why isn't everybody aware of it, particularly the old timers?

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

Actually, there was a hud, and it's probably still around, called a hostess hud and an escort hud. You could preprogram them with things you needed to announce regularly. It did show the L balance of those around you. Don't see them in the MP and they may not still work. 

A HUD that could access info about another persons Linden Dollar Balance would have thrown many, in fact probably most, residents into apoplectic fits and people would have been screaming bloody murder ala 'red zone' at Linden Lab.

But I can find no reference to such a function in the SL Forums both old and new nor over in SLU, etc, etc, etc.

But your search skills may be better than mine.

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in the early early days the PERMISSION_DEBIT was pretty buggy. Same the whole permissions system

so could exploit that

like get the debit perm by trickery and then try to take money off them. Like take the escort fee

if dont get it then they cant pay and so:  smiles and o.m.g!! my dog/cat/whichever just spew up all over the place. Amd so sorry handsome/beautiful person. I has to go. We defo get together next time ok. Sweetness honeybunch !! mwahh !! mwahh !!!smmooch!!!

and gone

if do get it then: smiles and oh! wow! thanks ever so much for the giftee my wonderful smoochy smooch best thing I ever met in my whole life. Like ever !!! I soooo wants to get nekkid with you. mwahh!! mwaaaah!

and most times the person goes hmmm! dunno how that happened but wooooohoooo!! nekkid time

 

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irihapeti wrote:

in the early early days the PERMISSION_DEBIT was pretty buggy. Same the whole permissions system

so could exploit that

like get the debit perm by trickery and then try to take money off them. Like take the escort fee

if dont get it then they cant pay and so:  smiles and o.m.g!! my dog/cat/whichever just spew up all over the place. Amd so sorry handsome/beautiful person. I has to go. We defo get together next time ok. Sweetness honeybunch !! mwahh !! mwahh !!!smmooch!!!

and gone

if do get it then: smiles and oh! wow! thanks ever so much for the giftee my wonderful smoochy smooch best thing I ever met in my whole life. Like ever !!! I soooo wants to get nekkid with you. mwahh!! mwaaaah!

and most times the person goes hmmm! dunno how that happened but wooooohoooo!! nekkid time

 

I know there were things like Disguised-request-debit fraud, but I was referring specifically to someone's account balance being revealed.  Nothing else.

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