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Do people with less inventory items run faster?


Rose Bomse
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I'm trying to get my RL husband to use his SL more, and he said he'd go to an event with me but his avatar needed updating so he logged in so I could dress him on my laptop and he moves MUCH faster than I do! I was so surprised, then I noticed he has so much less items than I do (I have around 43,000) and I thought maybe thats why?

Any input?

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Big inventories can slow you down, especially when it's loading.

SL wiki - Inventory

What I also can imagine is the things you are wearing are slowing you down. Lots of scripts or even worse, lots of worn sculpties are a real big load on your computer.

There are probably a lot of other things to consider...can't think of any right now though...

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More inventory will slow you down. First it has to load. Then, as you move from sim to sim, you have to be reconnected with it. I would suggest going through your inventory. If you don't wear it either delete it or you can rez a box and put the items in the box. Name the box hair, tops, buildings, whatever. Then you only have one inventory item with stuff in it that you can retrieve later. Also, go through and delete duplicate calling cards and landmarks as well as landmarks you don't use. Same with your objects folder. With copy items, when you open them a copy of the original box remains in your objects folder. Drop those in a prim to save as well, again labled with what they are. You can always retrieve it later that way if you need it. If you have room on your land, leave the box rezzed out rather than in your inventory. Stuff rezzed on your land is saved differently than stuff in your inventory. That way  you have a backup of your stuff outside of your inventory. I've done that with my textures collection and buildings I've collected over the years.

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oes anyone know of any better way to organize things inside storage prims than having prims inside prims inside prims?  It is so time-consuming to have to rez a prim, take the contents into inventory, rez another prim, etc., until one has drilled down to the desired level.  I thought of using notecards instead of prims for storage, but that only works for full-perm items, which I seldom need to store.  

When dealing with multiple storage prims, I find it handy to have the name of the prim displayed in hovertext, which this simple script will do automatically:

// This simple script displays the name of the prim it is in
// in hovering text above the prim.
// by Jennifer Boyle 1/15/2010
// Placed in the public domain by the creator 1/15/2010

default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetText(llGetLinkName(0), <1.0,1.0,0.0>, 1);
llResetScript();
}
}

 

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Rose Bomse wrote:

I'm trying to get my RL husband to use his SL more, and he said he'd go to an event with me but his avatar needed updating so he logged in so I could dress him on my laptop and he moves MUCH faster than I do! I was so surprised, then I noticed he has so much less items than I do (I have around 43,000) and I thought maybe thats why?

Any input?

you don't really carry all those items with you..you just have a list of the items  you have that are sitting on the asset server..that list gets cached to your computer again after clearing your cache..

the only time your inventory will slow you down is waiting for it to load after cleaning your cache or when you open the window ..

you connect to the asset server when you log in..it doesn't have to load in every sim...

the things you wear are what will slow you down..things you have rezzed...

the reason your husband may be moving slower is he  is wearing less scripts and prims than you..

putting your inventory in boxes will help it load when you clean your cache..but it doesn't have anything to do with moving around or teleporting here or there..sims only deal with what you are wearing not what you have..

the moment you log in you are logged to the asset server..like everyone else..the load is on the asset server and not you..

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Jennifer Boyle wrote:

Does anyone know of any better way to organize things inside storage prims than having prims inside prims inside prims?  It is so time-consuming to have to rez a prim, take the contents into inventory, rez another prim, etc., until one has drilled down to the desired level.  I thought of using notecards instead of prims for storage, but that only works for full-perm items, which I seldom need to store.  


Don't, you wish we could organize items in a prim in a subfolder?  As a custom content creator of almost six years now, its a real problem for me to keep my inventory sorted and down to a reasonable number of items because i keep a backup copy of everything I create for clients and have tons of 'building/creation supplies and tools', as well as the normal stuff most avatars have.  My solution was to create scripted storage prims that can function much the same way as a prim with folders inside it to archive things, but that also allows me to quickly find an item and retrieve it with a click of a button, without having to look in the edit contents and dragging stuff out.

I use one type that can hold any category of inventory item for storing the backup copies of all the items I created for entire sims,including any custom textures, notecards with information, etc.  I also use them to store items of mixed types used for a particular purpose, such as items for a particular property, interest, holiday, etc.

Another type holds only one category of inventory and are handy for general storage of things that are of a misc or general subject .  For instance, all my notecards or pictures that I want to save from a particular time period, subject matter or project.

Using this method I only have the more current stuff or things I use all the time in my inventory available for immediate access, but the archived stuff is easy to retrieve too and only takes a moment or two.

An office or home can be set up with the scripts too, except that I put them in the desk drawers, file cabinet drawers, credenza doors etc..  I then have a real file system in world to store and keep track of all stuff that goes with running a business available fast and at my finger tips just like a RL office.  If my inventory doesn't load, its still there for me. 

I rarely use prims inside of prims except when the item I'm storing is prim based.  Since you script you can probably do something similar to create a system that works for you.

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I don't think LL will give you the option of organising the contents of a prim.

A big inventory doesn't only slow the avatar down on load, it slows down the server aswell. So if you can "fake" a second, fully functioning inventory inside a prim, that will add to the load. Convenient as an organised prim inventory may be, I can see the following happenening: Someone with a big inv (don't we all have one if LL says 10k is big?) decides to build a bookshelf. That would be the main storage prim. It can look good and it would be very functional, so lots of people would use it on a regular basis I bet. We all know how long it takes to load prim contents if there are more than let's say 20 items. So every time the owner of a fully loaded item opens up the contents, the viewer has to fetch up to 1000s of links with the server. With a prim in prim in prim way of organising contents you don't have this issue. Only way to overcome this is by not loading the subfolders until they open I think, but that would still result in an enormous load if someone decides to browse. I have no idea btw why inv loads so much faster than prim contents. Maybe if that can be changed the system would work. Same for altering the contents of a prim opposed to inventory.

Hmm on second thought, wouldn't there have to be created a new file on the server containing all the links when an object is altered?..one with its own UUID?..then the old one has to be deleted. That kind of makes sense and would take a whole lot longer.

Can't wrap my brain around it entirely... just thinking out loud:)

What works very well for transferrable items is using an alt. Just dump everything you don't use on a daily or weekly or whatever basis onto another avatar.

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It would be a rare thing tat I would suggest that someone checks their Avatar Rendering Cost (now known as 'rendering weight') because of the ways in the past this was abused do to lack of understanding.  But in your situation it may give you a valid comparison. Check your ARC and your Husbands.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Avatar_Rendering_Cost

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Rendering_weight

Please note carefully though this warning:

"Important: ARC isn't the end-all for pinpointing Viewer lag. It's a useful estimate which should be used in conjunction with other tools."

Just like in RL, (and please, I am not criticizing and I know this is a generality) In SL, women tend to carry more things with them then men do.  More clothing layers, more attachments, etc.  Hair with more flexi prims /alphas can put a huge load on your graphics card.  When I am by myself I can more than double my Frame Rate just by removing my hair, but that doesn't help me when I get around other Avatars and I am sure not going to ask other people to take off their hair.

So you may want to do some experimenting to see what the Items you are wearing are doing to you.

One piece of advice is never criticize another person who has a high ARC.  It may be a factor but some of us still remember the ARC-nazis who use to wrongly harang people.  If you want to read some history of this you can look at this blog, http://analutetia.com/?p=7191 , but mind you some of the info there is old and may no longer be valid because of changes to how SL handles some things.


 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

One piece of advice is never criticize another person who has a high ARC.  It may be a factor but some of us still remember the ARC-nazis who use to wrongly harang people.  If you want to read some history of this you can look at this blog,
, but mind you some of the info there is old and may no longer be valid because of changes to how SL handles some things.

Typical blog, even though pretty well written, very very black and white on at least the arc issue.

One can't expect others to keep their "arc" so low all they can wear is three cubes. On the other hand, going by the logic from the blog you linked, the person with the most powerful computer will determine how far back everyone else needs to dial their detail.

So if I decide to run SL on a supercomputer and dress accordingly with a couple of billion worn triangles (hypothetically, since ofcourse SL can't handle that by itself), the rest of SL's residents will have to either avoid me completely or make sure their drawing distance is so low they won't ever get me on screen. That can't be right, there needs to be some balance...and that blog is clearly missing that.

Other than that, worth reading without a doubt.

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

 

One piece of advice is never criticize another person who has a high ARC.  It may be a factor but some of us still remember the ARC-nazis who use to wrongly harang people.  If you want to read some history of this you can look at this blog,
, but mind you some of the info there is old and may no longer be valid because of changes to how SL handles some things.

Typical blog, even though pretty well written, very very black and white on at least the arc issue.

One can't expect others to keep their "arc" so low all they can wear is three cubes. On the other hand, going by the logic from the blog you linked, the person with the most powerful computer will determine how far back everyone else needs to dial their detail.

So if I decide to run SL on a supercomputer and dress accordingly with a couple of billion worn triangles (hypothetically, since ofcourse SL can't handle that by itself), the rest of SL's residents will have to either avoid me completely or make sure their drawing distance is so low they won't ever get me on screen. That can't be right, there needs to be some balance...and that blog is clearly missing that.

Other than that, worth reading without a doubt.

It's the most thorough and balanced piece I have ever read on the subject of Lag.  But as I pointed out some of the info there is old (almost 3 years old now).

I know LL has updated how ARC is measured since that article so we can get a more accurate measure of an Avatars impact.  But it's still far from perfect.

The past year or so I have run into a few "script time nazis."  Got to love them.  One club I used to attend live music shows at would reward the person with the lowest script time $500L at the end of a show.  I consistently won that prize because I knew exactly what not to wear.  You could say that I was gaming the situation.  I wasn't going for the $L's but for the music.  However, because I knew they did this I took advantage of it.

We shouldn't all have to be technical geniuses to enjoy SL (though I've met a few people who disagree with this too), but let's face it, the design of SL requires you at least learn a few things in order to be able to fully enjoy the platform.  For certain, straining at gnats and swallowing camels does not improve anyone's enjoyment unless of course they are a masochist.

I don't think she was trying to say we should all get super computers but was mainly trying to educate on the reality of the situation, that Second Life does require a certain amount of computing power to run efficiently.

 

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As I said it was a well written article, no doubt about that. Pretty complete too, just not balanced on the arc part.

I was pointing out that the author made it sound like it doesn't matter how much things you want to hang from your avatar. The author made a point that if you are experiencing performance drops because someone else decides to wear all those things, it's not the "offender's" problem and you will simply have to tune down your detail. Everything needs to be within reason if you ask me.

Both the old and new arc are not very accurate and can be manipulated like you manipulated the scripts. That doesn't mean using a lot of scripted items or a lot of worn geometry can't really affect a lot of other people, not just the people with an onboard video card and a 2002 CPU. That was my point and it still is.

We could really do with better script and render monitors, but it's difficult to produce more accurate numbers without draining the server's resources. I think it's fair to say that someone with a display weight of 15 000 (which is very possible with mesh now without looking like a cube) will have a lower impact on performance than someone with a weight of 300 000, numbers that are very possible. Setting a limit at let's say 40 000 would be stupid, but the weight number is a good indicator nonetheless.

 

btw, the arc-nazis (a term I really don't like, but anyway) are probably running SL with the draw weight on constantly. Now if I have noticed one thing that causes enormous drops in fps....well take a good guess:)

 

@rose ... In theory having a very large inventory could slow you down considerably. No idea why I didnt think of it earlier, but your inventory list is cached (stored) on your hard disk. So if the space you reserved for SL cache is around the size of your inventory, there is no room to store anything else and everything you see on screen will have to be downloaded from the SL servers every time you have them pop into view. I don't think your inventory list will be anywhere near as big as the load of textures you have to download, so it's very very unlikely an issue. You can set your cache space a bit higher, but that folder on your harddrive is fragmented beyond belief, so having it very large can be an issue by itself I can imagine.

Sorry for all the technical talk, but it's a technical issue and an academic one aswell ( maybe it becomes a real issue if you have 500 000 items in inventory, I really don't know).

So again, I do not think your inventory is causing any problems.

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@rose ... In theory having a very large inventory could slow you down considerably. No idea why I didnt think of it earlier, but your inventory list is cached (stored) on your hard disk. So if the space you reserved for SL cache is around the size of your inventory, there is no room to store anything else and everything you see on screen will have to be downloaded from the SL servers every time you have them pop into view. I don't think your inventory list will be anywhere near as big as the load of textures you have to download, so it's very very unlikely an issue. You can set your cache space a bit higher, but that folder on your harddrive is fragmented beyond belief, so having it very large can be an issue by itself I can imagine.

Sorry for all the technical talk, but it's a technical issue and an academic one aswell ( maybe it becomes a real issue if you have 500 000 items in inventory, I really don't know).

So again, I do not think your inventory is causing any problems.

That's an interesting point.  Wouldn't good cache management include the auto clearing of old cache items so the ones being used at the moment can be "held"?    Idk how that would work from a programming perspective, so I'm really asking!

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I'm not the person to ask, I know next to nothing when it comes to these things.

My (theoretical) point however was that if your cache is so small or your inventory so big that your cache will only fit your inventory, everything you cache will replace something of your inventory, which will be loaded again since your inventory is always loaded. that would mean constant replacement and constant downloads.

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Jennifer Boyle wrote:

oes anyone know of any better way to organize things inside storage prims than having prims inside prims inside prims?  It is so time-consuming to have to rez a prim, take the contents into inventory, rez another prim, etc., until one has drilled down to the desired level.  I thought of using notecards instead of prims for storage, but that only works for full-perm items, which I seldom need to store.  

When dealing with multiple storage prims, I find it handy to have the name of the prim displayed in hovertext, which this simple script will do automatically:

// This simple script displays the name of the prim it is in

// in hovering text above the prim.

// by Jennifer Boyle 1/15/2010

// Placed in the public domain by the creator 1/15/2010

default

{

state_entry()

{

llSetText(llGetLinkName(0), <1.0,1.0,0.0>, 1);

llResetScript();

}

}

 

 

First of all, you can skip a step: You can drag the prims directly inworld instead of first dragging to your inventory and then inworld. I hope this helps a little bit.

 

I also never load the library, this is for me useless inventory I do not need, and not loading it, saves I think 2000 to 2500 on your inventory count.

To disable the Library: Go to advanced - Debug Settings. Find the setting NoInventoryLibrary and set it to true. Relog and your Library is gone. (set it back to false and relog to enable it again, if you might need it after all)

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